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And this is why Anarchy won't work...

  • Sep. 1st, 2005 at 4:31 PM
Annoyance

Basically, from what I understand, those who advocate anarchy state that the proper state of "society" is the "state of nature", where there is no society. Where there are no laws. No rules. Take what you want. Do what you want. Kill, or be killed (or, quite possibly, kill and be killed). This is, frankly, simplifying things a bunch. There is more to this, such as the idea that laws stifle human development, among other things. I'm not particularly an expert on this, and there are plenty of resources on the internet should you decide to do the resarch.

A state of anarchy is developing now in New Orleans. Rescue operations are hampered by gunfire. Looting is constantly going on in the the streets. I bet the anarchists are happy. However, I bet the locals aren't happy. And it isn't just because of fear of change. The nature of "state of nature", is, to a certain extent, a kind of eugenics. Those with phyisical problems are damned to death in one form or another. I see on the news people with diabeties talking about being unable to get Insulin. If you're confined to a wheelchair, you've either already drowned, are stuck getting around in a boat of some form, or confined to wherever you are. Oh, and somebody just might take your boat from you...

First, a little background. First I'd best establish that New Orleans, before the hurricane, had a gang problem

This is not too suprising. A lot of major cities in the US are having gang problems. While, I must admit, I don't live in Portland, and my information is mainly coming from local newspapers, I'm just calling it like I see it. Now, we are not seeing open gangwarfare in the street. Nor are we seeing murders once a day, or once a week. However, for a time, we were having about one gang shooting outside a night club a week, until the Portland Police department stepped up it's presence. Also, there is the trade in meth, which, considering meth is illegal, is, in part, being done by gangs (possibly the majority, as the majority of the meth on the streets is brought in from super-labs in Mexico), as well as addicts who are cooking their own meth and selling it.

Now, how does this apply to New Orleans?

Just read some of the account of the situation in New Orleans...
From Reuters

Now, would you want to live there? Even if there wasn't flooding, but still had the armed gangs ruling the streets and controlling the food supply (or attempting to take over those food, water, and medical sources that they don't already control.) In other words, it's turning out much like I expected an anarchy to turn out - like "No Man's Land" from Batman - but with people actually trying to engage in rescue operations...

Comments

[info]selenite wrote:
Sep. 1st, 2005 06:54 pm (UTC)
The ideological anarcho-capitalists have theories about how people can form completely voluntary associations to ward of predators. These would be contractual, enforced by (I love this) the fear of getting a bad reputation from breaking a contract. You might be amused by a go-round I had with one:
http://www.drizzten.com/blargchives/001041.html
[info]count_zeroor wrote:
Sep. 1st, 2005 07:27 pm (UTC)
Cool. That was very interesting and useful to read for future posts of mine against anarchy. As you may have noticed, most of my previous posts have generally run in the vein of "Mogidishu as Case Study".
[info]bpt wrote:
Sep. 1st, 2005 07:22 pm (UTC)
Have you ever talked to anyone who "advocates anarchy"? It sure doesn't sound like it, because I have never met an anarchist who wants anything remotely like what you describe. The Anarchist FAQ is a good overview of what actual anarchists think, if you don't want to sound like a troll when discussing anarchism.

(Okay, maybe some exceptionally deluded "anarcho"-capitalists want that, but "anarcho"-capitalists aren't anarchists.)
[info]count_zeroor wrote:
Sep. 1st, 2005 08:35 pm (UTC)
Frankly, most of the anarchists I'd talked to would, I guess, fall into the vein of the verbal minority, Upper-middle class, caucasian high-school-and-college-age students who listen to a lot of punk-rock-music-and-metal, are disaffected with the system as it is in the US, and feel that no system at all is far superior to any other system people can think up.

Now, they do not state that with anarchy we will return to the "laws of the jungle", but, come across as rather optimistic and naive, and say that without a government and governmentally enforced laws, no police to enforce them, no armies for defense, with the structure that they advocate, people won't exploit other people, there will be no poverty, because there will be no money, and all will be, for all intents and purposes, flowers and bunnies, with no weapons because no one will need them because no-one will be violent, no police because there will be no need for them, and no armies because no one will want to attack anyone else in large numbers.

Oh, and they say that this can work on a global scale. When I bring up the Russian Revolution, the ideals behind communism, and how it failed miserably in Russia and why, they essentially called it a fluke.

Anyhoo, thank you for linking the FAQ. I'm getting the impression that my previous impressions of anarchists were false. While, from my impressions of the Anarchy as represented on the linked FAQ, there are still some flaws in the position, and I still think anarchy is not the right way. However, it will take a lot more thinking to put it properly.

I did have a few questions to ask those writers of the FAQ, especially on the topic of, for instance, Vigalantie (sp) justice. However, as I wrote it, I realized their answers would be, essentially, "it wouldn't exist, such impulses would be trained out of society".

I have a few questions which that doesn't apply to. Once I've finished those questions, sent them off, and gotten responses, I'll post them here.
[info]selenite wrote:
Sep. 1st, 2005 09:28 pm (UTC)
Just to present Drizzten's side, he's closer to this FAQ:
http://www.gmu.edu/departments/economics/bcaplan/anarfaq.htm

I'm something of a minarchist myself, in an ideal world.

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